Talking to bilingual journalist Charles Pellegrin (France 24) about how the conventions of broadcast journalism influence the way the English is used in news reports, how Charles started as a journalist, the challenge of making TV news reports, our time at university, the Olympics in Paris, and Charles’ experiences of living and working in China.
My guest today is Charles Pellegrin, a bilingual (English & French) journalist working for the TV channel France 24. Charles currently works as the presenter of a morning business program, but used to be based in China, where he lived in Beijing for 3 years. Charles also does stand-up comedy in English, which is how I know him, and we are doing a 2-man show together this Friday, 19 July 2024 (details below).
In this conversation we talk about why reporters speak in a certain way when they read the news, how the conventions of broadcast journalism influence the way the English is used, how Charles started as a journalist, the challenge of making TV news reports, our experiences at university, the Olympics in Paris and whether it will be beneficial for France, and Charles’ experiences of living and working in China.
Natasha V. Broodie returns to the podcast to talk about her new book, which is full of advice for success in job interviews. Natasha has a lot of job interview experience, and she has learned the importance of self-belief and preparation. In this conversation she talks about some experiences that led her to write the book, and gives advice on what you should do before, during and after job interviews.
Talking with Rob from The Business English Podcast about networking in English. 🗣️ Networking is when you speak to other people, probably in a professional context, in order to build relationships, expand your social circle and make work contacts that can lead to business opportunities in the future. This is all about socialising, speaking spontaneously, active listening and being aware of cultural factors which can affect everything. Listen to the episode to hear plenty of comments, anecdotes, advice and language tips relating to networking in English in a professional context.
Barbara Serra is an award-winning Italian journalist who has spent much of her career reading the news in the UK on various high-profile well-established English language news networks including the BBC, Channel 5, Al Jazeera English and Sky News. Barbara has quite a specific relationship with the English language. We talk about learning English, challenges in her career, and the relationship between accent and identity.
Hello listeners, today on the podcast I am talking to Barbara Serra, the Italian journalist who reads the news on television in the UK. She’s a very interesting guest and has lots of interesting things to say about the way her identity and career have been shaped by her relationship to the English language.
We’re going to talk about reading the news in the UK when you sound like a foreigner, lots of questions around identity and accent, and all sorts of other things that Barbara has experienced in her time as a broadcast journalist. I think you will find it very interesting as a learner of English looking to improve your English as much as possible in different contexts, both personal and professional.
LEPster meet-up in Da Nang Vietnam
Gordon’s Pizza (in An Thuong area) on Friday 17th May from 9pm.
Send Zdenek an email if you’re interested – teacherzdenek@gmail.com
Barbara Serra is an award-winning Italian journalist who has spent much of her career reading the news in the UK on various high-profile well-established English language news networks including the BBC, Channel 5, Al Jazeera English and Sky News.
Barbara has quite a specific relationship with English. It’s her dominant language but not her native language. She has a certain accent, which does place her outside the UK somehow. So how has this affected her career as a news reader and reporter?
Broadcast journalism is associated with a certain model of spoken English – in the UK that would be what is often called BBC English, and traditionally the role of newsreader has been synonymous with that kind of high-level, high-status form of spoken English.
So what has Barbara’s experience been?
What is the story of her English?
How did she get the point where she was ready to do this job? What kind of challenges has she faced while reading the news in the UK?
And what does this all tell us about learning English, what it means to improve your accent, the relationship between accent and identity, the definition of “native” and “non-native speaker”, the status of different English accents in the English speaking world?
Let’s get into it.
LINKS
👉 Barbara’s email newsletter “News with a foreign accent” https://barbaraserra.substack.com/
👉 Barbara’s website with course info https://www.barbaraserra.info/
Top tips for spontaneous speaking 🏆 with communication expert Matt Abrahams, a professor at the Stamford Graduate School of Business, California. Matt is a leading expert in his field and his latest book “Think Faster, Talk Smarter: How to Speak Successfully When You’re Put on the Spot” gives you clear, academically-researched advice on how to deal with anxiety, focus on making connections, improve your mindset, learn to listen, and find really useful structures to help you become a more spontaneous and successful speaker.
These days Elena Mutonono is an experienced business coach who helps online English teachers to gain independence and control over their own careers, but Elena’s journey started as a learner of English herself. In this conversation I ask Elena about how she learned English, making the step to becoming an English teacher, then teacher trainer and what challenges online English teachers face when trying to work in a crowded and demanding job market.
Returning guest Kate Billington suddenly decided to move to the other side of the world, to Taipei in beautiful Taiwan. In this episode we talk about meeting LEPsters in Taipei, her decision to move there, and how everything is going, with the usual conversational tangents along the way.
Here is another conversation episode, and it’ll be the last one I’m doing for a little while. You’ll get some more solo episodes from me over the next few weeks, including a short story episode and more.
But this is another conversation, and it’s with Kate Billington who is a returning guest and a popular guest – this is her 5th time on the show.
Over the last few episodes I’ve done fairly long introductions to explain certain things before the conversation begins, but I don’t think it’s necessary this time. I think the title of the episode explains what you’re going to get. Kate Billington moved to Taiwan. Yes, Kate just decided to move to the other side of the world, and then she did it! Why? How? What’s she doing? How’s it going? That’s what we’re going to talk about, and as you might expect there are a few conversational tangents along the way.
It’s great to have Kate back on the podcast, even if we were not in the same room as each other this time. I hope you enjoy it. I’ll come back and chat to you a little bit at the end (in the audio version), but for now, let’s get started and here we go.
In international diplomacy, “communication is everything”. This is the main point of this conversation, in which I talk to my friend who works for the UK delegation at UNESCO in Paris. We discuss the work that UNESCO does, and the various communication challenges involved in working together with representatives from countries all around the world, including the collaborative writing of official documents where the use of a single comma can be debated for hours, and the meetings and conversations in which cultural sensitivity and good-will are essential elements for success. Also includes some communication idioms and guitar playing near the end of the episode.
UNESCO stands for The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization. (Wikipedia)
It is a specialized agency of the United Nations (UN) which has the aim of promoting world peace and security through international cooperation in education, arts, sciences and culture.
Perhaps the most famous thing they do is to protect certain world heritage sites, but that is only one of the things that they are involved in.
My friend works there and in this episode you’ll hear us talking about his work and about communication in the context of international diplomacy.
This is quite complex stuff actually.
Normally in these situations, when I’m publishing an episode like this, I have to make certain decisions about what to say in the introduction.
How much should I explain in advance?
What kind of support should I give to my audience before you listen?
People listening to my podcast have varying levels of English. Rather than slowing down and stopping to explain every word, I want to give you a conversation at natural speed, but explaining some context at the start can really help a lot of people. It’s not just because of English. It’s also just a question of general knowledge too.
Before I met M__, I didn’t really know a lot about what UNESCO did, and honestly, I think most people probably find it a little bit of a mystery.
So I have decided to explain one or two things here, so you are properly placed to understand all of this and therefore enjoy it and benefit most from it.
Of course I don’t want to say too much or repeat myself or anything, so I’ve written this introduction in advance to try and keep me focused, to be informative but also efficient, and then you can just get stuck into the conversation with my guest.
M__ works for the UK delegation at UNESCO, which has its headquarters in Paris by the way. The word “delegation” comes up a few times (also the word “delegate”) and that will be explained.
UNESCO HQ is in Paris – I did stand-up there once, which was weird! I was invited as part of a festival in 2019 called Paris Talks. It was a bit like a series of TED Talks, all of them serious – about the future.
***Luke talks spontaneously for a couple of minutes about doing stand-up comedy at the UNESCO HQ in Paris***
Whenever I chat to M__, if we have a drink together or something, I am always really curious about his work and I find it really fascinating. Hopefully it’ll be fascinating for you too.
So, we’re going to talk about the work that UNESCO does and the way the organisation works, but also about the different forms of communication that happen there, and this, for me as an English teacher, is perhaps the most interesting thing about it.
Imagine, nearly every nation in the world collaborating together at a government level on very important projects. Thisof course includes nation states which have different relations with each other, some friendly, some antagonistic.
Also, you’re dealing with often vastly different cultures with different communication styles and values. But you’ve got to try to work together with these different groups towards a common goal.
This involves communication at a very high level – international diplomacy. What does it take to cross these barriers of culture, politics, economics, at a state level?
Diplomatic communication is a huge part of it and working in this context requires a variety of different types of communication skills.
There’s persuasion, there’s negotiation, there’s showing respect, there’s using pressure, there’s giving compliments and expressing gratitude and it can happen in writing and in spoken English too at various levels of formality.
Imagine these different communication contexts:
Huge meetings with representatives from countries all around the world, sitting at tables with little flags on them and everyone attempting to work together to agree on certain big decisions. Sometimes they don’t want to do the same thing. There are groups that are friendly, and groups that have their differences.
The collaborative writing of very formal documents in those big meetings. These are documents which UNESCO issues – a bit like laws passed by a government (although UNESCO doesn’t actually make laws)
Smaller, less formal meetings in which different delegations attempt to build support for their proposals, with negotiations and persuasion.
Individual one on one conversations or conversations in small groups, between the more formal meetings, where representatives might stand up and chat together perhaps over coffee and a softer form of persuasion or negotiation occurs, and the building of relationships and alliances.
And the work of interpreters – who sit in other rooms, looking through windows, with headsets on, having to simultaneously translate what is being said in these important meetings from one language to another, and the quick decisions they have to make about how exactly they should word things without subtly changing the tone of what is being said. Interpreters are a huge part of this. Maybe some of you listening are considering becoming an interpreter, or maybe you already are.
How is language used in these different situations? How does the language change?
We’re talking about different levels of formality, and the pragmatics of diplomacy at this high level.
Also, what does UNESCO do exactly? How does it actually work? What does M__ actually do on a daily basis?
These are the things I was very interested in capturing in this conversation.
Before we start, here are a few more details.
Here’s some more information from Wikipedia.
UNESCO was founded in 1945 and its founding mission, which was shaped by the events of World War II, is to advance peace, sustainable development and human rights by facilitating collaboration and dialogue among nations.[10]
It pursues this objective through five major programme areas: education, natural sciences, social/human sciences, culture and communication/information.
What does it actually do? I find this quite hard to work out!
It assists in the translation and dissemination of world literature – making sure the best works of literature are available to be read by everyone, and not just in their countries of origin.
It works to bridge the worldwide digital divide (attempting to reduce disparities between developed and developing countries in terms of what technologies are available to people)
It creates inclusive knowledge societies through information and communication. By Knowledge Societies, UNESCO means societies in which people have the capabilities not just to acquire information but also to transform it into knowledge and understanding, which empowers them to enhance their livelihoods and contribute to the social and economic development of their societies. UNESCO has launched several initiatives and global movements, such as Education For All.
How does it actually do these things? As far as I can tell, they create what M__ calls “standard setting documents”.
Those are not laws because they are not legally binding but they are similar to laws because they set out guidelines on what should or should not be done.
Governments in the member states can use these standard setting documents to help them form policies and laws, in line with UNESCO’s overall objectives.
So they’re not binding legislation but these UNESCO documents are still very formally written.
M__ tells us about how this is done, at the various stages, referring to different communication contexts in the process.
This all might sound a bit dry in my descriptions, but just let me take you back to that image of the large meeting room at UNESCO with all these representatives or delegates from the different countries. Imagine you are actually there.
Imagine having to open one of those big meetings. Imagine the mood in the room as you look out and see these different faces representing the different nations. Imagine the tone you would have to use in your speech, the specific wording, to gain their attention and their respect, to speak with the relevant level of importance, to try to create a feeling of goodwill, to make the different delegations feel respected, and then to attempt to unite these different nations with competing interests and worldviews.
Imagine having a specific project, and trying to get it off the ground – arranging smaller meetings to try to build alliances. Taking the time to chat one on one with people between meetings, drafting emails with proposals, and finally trying to edit formal documentation in collaboration with other delegates in huge writing sessions that can last days.
That’s the world we’re talking about here and specific things about how we have to adapt our language in these situations.
Several other things
My friend is also a really good guitarist, and so at the end of this conversation we couldn’t help but turn our attention to the guitars in my podcastle. He plays one of my guitars and we talk about guitars. So, we do move from international diplomacy to guitars. If you want to hear him play, just stick around until the end of the conversation.
Background noise. There was a guy in the corridor outside my podcast room doing some work – sanding a wall. So, apologies – you’ll hear the sounds of normal life bleeding into the recording slightly. I think it’s not too bad, but if you hear some noise and wonder what it is, it’s a guy sanding a wall outside.
Right, so without any further ado let’s get started. The first thing you’ll hear now is me saying that often the most difficult part of podcasting is the very beginning of a recording, and M__ gives me a good bit of advice which he has learned from his work at UNESCO.
So, let’s now join the conversation at that point. I’ll chat to you a bit at the end.
Communication Idioms (explained at the end)
To beat around the bush
To talk at cross purposes
To grab/get the wrong end of the stick
To hit the nail on the head
It strikes a different chord in people’s minds (if you speak from the heart)
This guy is trying to wrap me round his finger (to manipulate/control me)
Today on the podcast I am talking to Lindsay from All Ears Engish.
Do you know the All Ears English podcast? If you don’t know it, then that is a surprise to me because All Ears English is an extremely popular, well-known and high ranking podcast for learners of English.
I’m sure you’ve come across it before. Yellow logo, Lindsay and her co-hosts Michelle, Jessica and Aubrey. American English. Their episodes are always full of positive energy. They promote personal growth through learning English and their mantra is “connection not perfection”. All Ears English. Over a million subscribers on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, ranked in Best of Apple Podcasts categories in 2018 and 2019, and #1 in US Education Language Courses category. Lindsay and her team have been featured in Podcast Magazine, Language Magazine, and Forbes. When your podcast is in a magazine, when you’ve crossed from one medium into another, you know you’re doing something right. You know, All Ears English! https://www.allearsenglish.com/
Lindsay is a returning guest on my podcast. She has been on this show a few times before. Long, long term listeners might remember her first appearance way back in episode 186 in 2014 talking about culture shock. So we’ve collaborated quite a few times. I have also been on All Ears English a number of times too, including recently.
Just a couple of months ago, Lindsay and I decided that it was about time we collaborated again on a couple of episodes so we invited each other onto our respective podcasts. I was on her show just a couple of weeks ago, in episode 2140 talking about differences between American and British English. We compared the vocabulary differences, communication style differences and more. If that sounds interesting, you could check it out. AEE 2140: The Subtle Differences Between American and British English with Luke’s English Podcast
And for Lindsay’s appearance on my show in this episode, we agreed that it could be really interesting to talk about Lindsay’s home country – the USA and what’s going on there at the moment in terms of economic, political and cultural changes.
You’re going to hear us talking about things like:
The actions of unions and how that has been affecting workers’ rights.
The way cities are evolving because of changes in people’s working lives especially since the COVID-19 pandemic.
Property prices, the energy crisis, American people’s attitudes about their government, trust in public institutions and other things of that nature.
Also, I couldn’t help adding my own comments about what’s been going on in the UK as well, in order to compare and find similarities between our two countries.
It’s a big year for both the UK and the USE – we have big elections coming up – a presidential election in the USA at the end of the year and a general election in the UK at some point.
There’s plenty to talk about. I hope you find it all interesting. I’ll talk to you again a little bit at the other end of this conversation, but now, without any further ado, let’s get started.
This is the longest episode of LEP so far, and it’s a solo ramble. Relax, follow my words, hang out with me for 3 hours, get stranded on a desert island of the imagination, and then get rescued. Includes a haircut, a sleep and a t-shirt change during the episode.
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